Andy Zinke
Bill Prim
Two robo-calls from an unidentified male voice came this afternoon.
One attacked Nick Provenzano’s candidacy and praised Mary McClellan’s.
The other attacked Bill Prime, candidate for Sheriff, and praised Andy Zinke.
Funny thing is the same guy recorded both of them.
There was no sponsor on either of them, a violation of State law, but, I’m sure whoever paid for them knows that they will never be tracked down.
Only the person who cut the recordings, the company who put them out and whoever wrote the payment checks will know who spent the money.
I was out and about when the calls came, so they were recorded on our answering machine.
A Friend of McHenry County Blog wrote the following analysis of the anti-Bill Prim call:
Zinke can only come up with lies about his opponent. Here’s a little fact check for those who may believe the lies:
http://www.primforsheriff.org/fact_check
Fact Check
Our opponent likes to make accusations that are completely and utterly wrong. Check out our Prim for Sheriff fact check to set the record straight!
ACCUSATION:
Bill Prim retired from Des Plaines to escape an internal investigation. He only gave 3-days notice to retire.
REALITY:
Bill left Des Plaines to spend time with his kids, both of whom were preparing to leave for college. As a single dad and 27-year veteran, Bill felt as though it was time to retire so he can set his kids in the right direction.
The Des Plaines Journal did a piece about Bill, explaining how he wasn’t leaving for internal issues.
You can read the article here. In fact, Chief William Kushner kept Bill on as a citizen volunteer after his retirement, advising the department on volunteer and youth programs.
ACCUSATION:
Bill was implicated and had knowledge of the Traffic Unit scandal that plagued the Des Plaines Police Department. Bill’s partner was implicated in criminal activity and Bill left so he wouldn’t be arrested.
REALITY:
Bill was a commander in a separate division who reported to a different supervisor and worked on a separate floor from the accused unit. As a patrol commander, Bill was responsible for patrol operations NOT the traffic unit, thus he had no knowledge of the issue as it was occurring. As a result, Bill was never implicated as a part of the scandal, was never disciplined, was never a target in the investigation (both internally and criminally) and had no role in the investigation as a whole.
ACCUSATION:
Bill Prim is a double dipper just trying to pad his own pocket. By double dipping, Bill is just further exacerbating the pension crisis.
REALITY:
This is anything but the truth. Bill has said numerous times during the campaign that he does not intend to collect an additional pension from McHenry County. The pension he receives from the City of Des Plaines is a result of his 27-year career with the department which he had paid nearly 10% of every paycheck to during his career. Additionally, Bill’s pension is an independently managed and operated fund which does not rely on McHenry County or Illinois State taxpayer funds. Read Bill’s press release on the subject here.
I see some very specific claims of Zinke having said those specific things above…can someone help with when he said them, because I haven’t seen it.
I mean Prim wouldn’t possibly be twisting what Zinke actually said and then “defending” against specific accusations he never actually made would he? That would seem to be very Obama/cook county like which I suppose would be appear relatively consistent…
REALITY: Bill wants a pension to pay him at the same time as a county salary.
This is double dipping at the taxpayer dime.
I don’t care if they are “different” taxpayers.
He wants to suckle from the government TWICE.
That is classic double dipping.
Prim supporters want you to think it doesn’t matter if he doesn’t get a pension.
Prim would be a double dipping sheriff and that is what we are trying to stop.
Vote Zinke.
GET A GRIP PEOPLE! This pension/double-dipping is a non-issue.
It is permitted by state law and there is absolutely nothing shady or underhanded in Nygren having earned and collected a pension from Crystal Lake, drawing a salary as sheriff of McHenry County and, now that he’s retiring, drawing another pension from the IMRF which he has paid into and earned.
Likewise, Bill Prim earned a pension at Des Plaines and should be allowed to collect it, earn a salary as sheriff if he’s elected AND pay into and perhaps collect a second pension from the IMRF.
Zinke, if elected, will have his salary boosted and his eventual IMRF pension increased due to this.
SO WHAT?
If you earned a pension working for, say, General Motors and retired, would you expect that in ANY future job you took, for whatever reason, your new salary or wages should be reduced from what others were making for the same work simply because “well, he has a pension”?
You know you wouldn’t.
If you don’t agree with the law, that’s fine but it’s not Prim’s fault, Nygren’s fault, or Zinke’s fault that it’s available to them.
On your income taxes, you’re married and have four children.
That entitles you to exemptions.
Are you a bad person for taking those exemptions?
If you think that’s the case, then you’re honor bound to refuse to take those exemptions and should pay the full tax.
Yeah, that’s going to happen you hypocrites!
Find another drum to bang on, this one makes absolutely no sense in this context.
Truthful. I do NOT fault Nygren or others for taking advantage of the Double Dipping pension largesse provided under Illinois law.
It is legal and people took advantage of it.
I have no problem with that.
However,Illinois is broke.
Taxpayers can no longer sustain such benevolent pension largesse.
Prim’s pension alone is $80,000 annually.
Same for Nygren and others.
That is more than double the average private sector salary of $34,000.
It is an Employer’s market….people are tripping over themselves to find any job.
We do not need to provide Double Dipping pensions to attract and retain quality government employees in the present labor market.
By allowing Double Dipping, we allow those already well compensated to block out younger citizens from the labor force.
The Boomer generation needs to stop the unprecedented money grab from public pensions and truly retire with their more than generous $80,000 annual pensions.
Need more income?
Get a job in the private sector while drawing a public pension.
I thought these were comments on the robo-calls?
Does anyone listen to those anymore?
Zinke supporters this will not work because the voters already know the excellent track record and great qualification Bill Prim holds.
The robo-calls are a waste.
People either don’t even answer the phone or hang up when they hear it is a political call.
The post card mailing you sent out were a little too late and untrue as people read because Mr. Prim had already made a press release referring to that subject. Y
ou Zinke people are a day late and a dollar short.
Vote Bill Prim
Truthful. General Motors, like many private pension plans and most public pension plans, is substantially under-funded by $20 billion dollars. A
nd, most private sector employees cannot draw a pension until after age 60.
The average GM pension is only $36,000 annually.
Pensions are a Ponzi scheme that is doomed to fail without reform.
Pension reform = Vote no to Prim’s Double Dipping
voter. Taxpayers will be more than a dollar short when we elect Double Dippin Bill Prim.
More like $80,000 short annually. LOL
With all respect, Teacher… If you don’t like the law, change it.
I don’t agree with it either but I’m not about to beat anyone up for following it.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but it seems that we are talking about three pension funds that are NOT underfunded nor abused: Crystal Lake’s, Des Plaines’ and the IMRF.
If I’m in error on any of those, my apologies.
Blocking younger people?
We’re talking an elected position of leadership?
Let’s just make it a law that you cannot run for sheriff (or anything else) if you’re over the age of 40.
That “Me! Me! Right now!” is part of the problems we experience today.
Many don’t want to “pay their dues, work their way up.”
Work the job for four years, maybe play hop-scotch with several departments and then they say “I’m smarter than all of you. Make me chief!”
If you really believe these men are to be faulted for following the law, please don’t take any tax exemptions, etc.
They’re legal but you know how badly the government’s books look!
Teacher 155 so you want to keep up showing your ignorance.
I’m surprised you can get the CAPTCHA code right.
I feel sorry for all the last minute desperate attempts to discredit Prim.
You can’t because what Prim stands for is what McHenry needs most.
Get the old dishonest game players out and bring in honesty,integrity, leadership and experience which Prim has shown in the past.
Face it Zinke people it’s hard to promote something out of nothing.
Vote Prim for the future of McHenry. A positive future for the Sheriff’s department !!!!
Only 4 more days to Sheriff Prim I feel like singing
” These boots are made for walk en
and that’s just what I’ll do
One of these days these boots are gonna walk………all together now
walk all over the regime . dum dum dum dum l.o.l.
Prim stands for double dipping and the Cook County way.
Prim is not double dipping.
I have read this a few times now and I feel compelled to respond.
What you have here is a coordinated effort to scream at the top their lungs.
I receive a pension from the United States Air Force.
If I am elected I am eligible for the county pension but I refuse to take it.
This is not double dipping.
Bill Prim receives a pension from his 27 honorable years of service.
If Bill is elected he is eligible for the county pension but will refuse to take it.
This is not double dipping.
Get real.
Moronic.
Oh they will never understand simple logic.
They continue to make fools of themselves.
Let them better for us.
Vote for Bill Prim
The Zinke supporters continue to build a case against Zinke every time they speak…
Andrew Gasser is right, all they are trying to do is scream at the top of their lungs.
“Teacher 155” You have made yourself look like such a fool, you should be expelled..
How you managed to get a teaching job, that is a complete mystery…
No child or young adult should be influenced by you…
So, if you work at a job for 25 or 30 years, pay into pension fund and retire, you should never work again?
That’s ridiculous.
Both Nygren and Prim put in the years of service, got the pensions they worked for and are now expected to never work.
The difference here folks is that Nygren earned a second pension and collected a salary during that time.
Prim will collect his earned pension and has promised not to contribute to a pension fund when elected, only the salary.
Not difficult to understand, vote Prim.
If you look at what happened in the last seven years or so you see what happened to the average person regarding government pay and pensions.
Years ago, people would laugh at you if you had a government job as the pay used to be low and the stock markets were soaring so the private industry pensions looked great with tremendous returns.
And then… crap hit the fan and the economy took a bath.
Then the government jobs and pensions were blamed for everything as now they looked really good.
The scrutiny was well deserved however due to incredible abuse by government agencies and employees.
IMRF is very well funded and managed and has never had a compounded interest increase unlike some of the other state funded plans that are incredibly under funded due to the politicians only paying a small percentage of the monies required.
If you look at the average IMRF teacher pension it is not that great, really.
As is always the case, a small number who had their pay inflated due to years of bonuses, frivolous overtime as in the case of our Sheriff’s department and we see padded paychecks for the last years of employment and very high pensions.
IMRF was adjusted by the State legislature and the pensions are much lower and you have to work longer.
If you want to stop the abuse, you have to look at the paychecks and overtime accrued. For instance, your own jailhouse has over 200 less “paying” detainees in the bed rental plan but has the same number of jailers, more supervisors and an overtime bill that would strangle a cat.
If you want to really save money on pensions, paychecks and hold your government responsible, insist on a volunteer unpaid audit of all funds by ordinary concerned citizens so everyone knows
what’s going on.
You would be amazed!
Duncan YoYo……once again you fail to make any lucid remarks other that your psycho-babble attacks.
Tea Party Math: when Prom would get Two sources of income, yet isn’t a double dipper.
Lol
McHenry County Sheriff’s Departament would have no Employer Contribution to the IMRF McHenry County Sheriff pension plan if Prim is elected.
However McHenry County Sheriff’s Department would have an Employer Contribution to the IMRF McHenry County SHeriff pension plan if Zinke is elected.
That’s one way McHenry County taxpayers save taxpayer money if Prim is elected vs. Zinke.
Even though Prim is receiving a pension and would apparently continue to receive a pension if elected as McHenry County Sheriff, McHenry County taxpayers don’t pay a dime for that pension.
Because it’s a Des Plaines Police pension, and the Des Plaines Police Pension receives receives no state funding.
The fact one could retire so early with such a generous local police pension is another issue, one that Mayors are facing today in many communities in Illinois.
One could assert, as local Mayors are lobbying to state legislators, that state legislators have hiked local police pension benefits too much and the result is employer contributions to local state and fire pensions are too high, and there needs to be state reform of local police and fire pension rules.
But the McHenry County Sheriff Pension Plan is not a local police and fire pension plan, rather an IMRF pension plan.
Reform of IMRF is also necessary.
IMRF has its own set of problems.
All the state pensions (TRS, SURS, SERS, JRS, GARS), IMRF, local police, and local fire need further reform.
Because their benefits were hiked by state lawmaker and Governors in exchange for campaign contributions, votes, and electioneering assistance.
And because of pay hikes approved by elected Boards.
And because they are defined benefit with unlimited taxpayer liability (no cap on the amount you can be taxed for these pensions).
Employees have a cap (their employee contribution)
But taxpayers have no cap.
Again IMRF has rules that need to be reformed.
IMRF is well funded because it has a funding guarantee.
Taxes provide that funding guarantee.
So if you don’t mind paying an unlimited amount in taxes to fund IMRF, no problem.
Taxpayers were never told about all these benefit hikes.
Taxpayers never specifically approved all these benefit hikes.
The Press never reported on all these benefit hikes.
All those pensions are defined benefit.
Defined benefit means the taxpayer is on the hook for any shortfall, not the employee.
Defined benefit means there is no limit to the amount taxpayers can contribute to the pension funds.
The sky is the limit.
Whatever benefit hikes special interest groups and lobbyists could convince state legislators to
pass is the limit.
And anyone who thinks state pensions are reformed after state legislators had 1 day to consider a 327 page pension reform bill before it was passed in 2013 is kidding themselves.
Who can read, digest, and contemplate 327 pages in one day.
Not to mention there was no time for meaningful debate of 327 pages in the state legislature.
Not to mention no meaningful reform can come out of the Michael Madigan controlled House Rules committee.
Not to mention if one person objects to a bill in the House, the bill doesn’t come to vote.
The entire legislative process is thus broken in Illinois.
The State Constitution is even dysfunctional in regards to pensions thanks to one sentence added to the Illinois State Constitution at the 1970 Constitutional Convention.
Unions and those receiving a public sector pension call it the pension protection clause.
It’s more appropriately called the Benefit Hike Protection Clause.
Because there is no cap on benefit hikes which can be passed in the broken state legislative process.
Legislators and Governors can hike pension benefits as much as they want.
And they did.
Bill Zettler wrote a 300 page book about it, and he just scratched the surface.
Here’s the sentence.
“Membership in any pension or retirement system of the State, any unit of local government or school district, or any agency or instrumentality thereof, shall be an enforceable contractual relationship, the benefits of which shall not be diminished or impaired.”
Constitution of the State of Illinois.
Adopted at special election on December 15, 1970.
Article XIII – General Provisions.
Section 5. Pension and Retirement Rights.
http://www.ilga.gov/commission/lrb/con13.htm
So there you have it.
From the State Constitution to the local level the system is broken.
And we get the middle finger.
Zinke is the one who apparently unprovoked flipped off the local blogger, while in his police uniform, driving his McHenry County Sheriff police vehicle in the Crystal Lake Independence Day parade, on Sunday July 7th, 2013, in broad daylight, in front of taxpayers and families, and all this was photographed.
Furthermore he was apparently not disciplined or reprimanded for the action.
Broken State Constitution.
Broken State legislative process.
Broken local boards elected with special interest group money providing overly generous salary and benefit hikes.
From top to bottom the state is in shambles.
That’s how you get a $100 Billion+ unfunded liability for state pensions, not including IMRF and local police and fire pensions.
Unfunded liability is money that should be in the pension funds now, but is not, to achieve the desired investment return.
Not many people seem to realize that.
So if we don’t have the money to achieve the desired investment return now, if we could not afford the contributions in the past, how do we catch up?
Well politicians said we will create a ramp.
First there was the Edgar Ramp.
Now with the 327 page pension reform bill if found constitutional (the reform bill is being challenged in the courts), we have the Quinn Ramp.
The Edgar Ramp was a 40 year ramp.
Ramp means the payments to the pension funds increase every year.
The payments became unaffordable.
The solution.
Create another ramp in the 327 page pension reform bill.
There are a lot of assumptions that go into defined benefit pensions.
By the way Kirk Dillard who is running for Governor in the Republican primary likes to associate himself with Jim Edgar.
So Investment return is one assumption.
But it’s an assumption.
There’s no guarantee the assumption will actually occur.
We don’t know what future investment returns will be.
Past investment returns is a clue but no guarantee.
If the rate of return assumption is incorrect, once again, taxpayers make up that shortfall, not employees.
Could go on and on.
There are serious systemic problems in Illinois government and the public sector pensions.
They power brokers never seem to be overly concerned.
They seem to think oh we’ll just pass another law to fix the problem.
It’s Republicans and Democrats.
Seems to be the take the money and run philosophy.
Cash out and hope there’s enough money in the bank before I die to continue paying my pension.
Hope the taxpayers will approve tax hikes to cover my pension.
But long term stability of what’s in place now at current tax rates?
Long term sustainability of the pension and early retiree healthcare benefit hikes that were passed, at the tax rates that were in place when the benefit hikes were passed?
Not a snowball’s chance in a very hot place very deep in the earth.
Vote for people who will expose and admit to reality.
That’s probably not the person who gives the middle finger to the person trying to expose what is happening in government.
Frank never answered the question.
By his logic every United States veteran would be a double dipper.
What a load of Stink.
Shameful but expected from the regime now on life support.
Great post, Mark.
voter. We wonder why Illinois is broke?
We wonder why pensions are underfunded?
Just look at the pension apologists posting above.
Traditionally, pensions were only paid upon full retirement when a person was past prime working years.
Largely, private pension are still not payable until after age 60 (later than 60 for full payout) Social Security payout is gradually increasing from age 65 to age 70.
Only generous public sector pension “retirement” ages are being lowered.
Government service has become the Goose that layed the Golden Egg.
“Retiring” from government service only to take another government service job with a pension and salary is “gaming the system.”
Every poster in this board knows it.
And, apparently, most of the “Conservatives” on this blog have skin in the game and support pension abuse.
Truthful. I have no problem that Commander Prim and Sheriff Nygren and many others have “played by the pension” rules to their great benefit.
But, such generous pension largesse is wholly unsustainable.
Yes, the Illinois Constitution and state laws need to be reformed, but that will never happen.
But, at the ballot box, every voter can take a stand to career politicians and public bureaucrats gaming the public salary and public pension system.
Prim gets an $80,000 public pension.
But, now wants an additional $160,000 public salary.
That is Double Dipping.
Mr. Prim needs more income?
Go into the public sector and stop feeding at the public trough.
Give the post-Boomer generation some opportunities in public service.
We all agree that the Sheriff needs experience and common sense.
So unless we elect a kid out of college they are going to have a lot of experience and have a pension already or a big pension coming like Andy.
Maybe one of the candidates would be willing to do the job for $50,000 in salary.
Then Bill could take the pension because it wouldn’t be much anyway.
I know Gus would do it for nothing and you would know that he’s not stealing money or padding people’s pension and paychecks.
Or being scared to death by ladies dressed in black…
Maybe the answer is that combined salary and previous pension can never exceed $150,000.
That way Bill would be paid $70,000 a year.
So, then the easy answer would be to elect Bill; a much cheaper proposition for the County taxpayers.
The McHenry County Sheriff position is a job not a public trough.
Prim will cost McHenry County Taxpayers less than Zinke because Prim is not taking a McHenry County Sheriff (IMRF) pension.
State pension laws will be further reformed, and likely the Constitution, it’s just a matter of when.
The pension system as the result of benefit and pay hikes is unsustainable.
The tax hikes required to sustain the system even if passed would likely drive so many residents and business out of state, the desired tax revenue would not materialize.
The pension mess is caused by lobbyists, politicians, press and voters that have not paid close enough attention.
More transparency is needed.
More awareness is needed.
So if Mr.Zinke is found guilty of not only illegally running leads but running a women out of her home, will be be charged with a felony?
Mark.
Thank you.
Your brilliantly written posts add to the debate and clarify the needs/solutions.
I admire your grit and understanding.
Would that our elected officials had half your knowledge and patience.
This issue should have been a non-starter for both campaigns.
While public pensions are and will continue to be an issue, politicians using it against each other is disingenuous.
Take 2 candidates running for office A; let’s say one was a well heeled millionaire who had sworn off taking the pension and the other was more qualified for the office, but was not wealthy enough to forego the pension, do you vote for?
I think this whole conversation is ridiculous about double dipping, which I think is the wrong wording being used.
This is the way I look at it, as a younger person struggling to put food on the table for my family, people collecting big fat pensions are returning back to the workforce to live that luxurious life causing fewer jobs available for us younger people.
When do we get that chance to live off the land of opportunity?
We don’t have any big fat pensions to fall back on like Prim, that is why I am not voting for him.
Will someone tell Mr. Zinke that you CAN NOT be interviewed on t.v. in your office.
Gosh doesn’t he know the law?
Well, I was going to vote for Zinke but after reading all the comments here it has convinced me to vote for Prim.
It is so obvious who has a grasp on reality.
voter.
It is not illegal to conduct an interview in his office so long as public funds are not expended to support his campaign.
Merely doing a campaign video or taking pictures in a public building is permissible.
At least, our top county lawyer Mr. Bianchi seems to think it is legal.
http://mchenrycountyblog.com/2008/10/31/mchenry-county-states-attorney-lou-bianchi-posts-tv-ad-on-youtube-2/
The Regime is trying to salvage Andy Zinkes campaign…
“Gulfguy” “The Teach”
They will justify anything when it comes to Andy Zinke and that circus of his…
He should be charged with a felony for running that leads report….
The Regime will say and do anything to destroy a good and honest man named Andrew Zinke.
“Dunc” “voter” they will attack and criticize anything regardless of truth when it comes to supporting the Prim circus.
Prim should be charged for the Des Plaines overtime scandal and Des Plaines police brutality cases….
teacher, looks like being desperate brings out the best in you.
Typical statement by you not knowing what you are talking about.
Again, I ask why anything about Des Plaines did not make the Zinke hit piece.
If there was anything credible, would not Zinke’s campaign advisors used it in a direct mail piece?
Very perceptive voter.
You realize that I was talking out my rear-end mimicking blowhard Duncan McHanry talking out his rear-end in his 7:02pm post.
You are very intelligent voter. LOL
Cal, I adk why anything about Sondra Matterness did not make a Prim hit puece.
If there was anything credible, would not Prim’s campaign advisers used it in a direct mail piece?
Cal, I adk why anything about Rita Corp did not make a Prim hit piece.
If there was anything credible, would not Prim’s advisers used it in a direct mail piece?
Obviously, the Rita story is not credible.
Only a defammation lawsuit for Tex if he goes there.
Talk about defamation why don’t we.
I think you and a few others better worry about that one. l.o.l.