Vicky Smith
On the Committee of the Whole agenda for McHenry County College next Tuesday is the following:
Illinois Community College Council of Presidents White Paper on Applied Baccalaureate at the Community College: Dr. Vicky Smith (20 minutes)
Being a junior college that saves students money apparently isn’t good enough.
Junior colleges want to become four-year institutions.
Can dorms be far behind?
College of DuPage has a few 3 + 1 degrees.
Four years at a community college.
3 years taught by community college instructors.
1 year taught by instructors from a 4 year institution, but the classes are held at the community college.
http://www.cod.edu/academics/transfer_programs/3plus1.aspx
I think the more appropriate reaction is why are community colleges told specifically that they CAN’T award anything higher than an Associates degree.
I know Harper College in Palatine talked for years about expanding some programs to a BA/BS, not sure if they ever did.
I like the idea. If professors for 300 and 400 level courses require a higher grade of pay, then charge the students a higher tuition rate.
This works even better for people that have full time jobs and want to continue their education towards a BA/BS locally.
MCC could take advantage of more available classroom space for night and weekend classes.
I took some classes in September, October and November at MCC on Saturdays a few years ago.
The place was empty!
Room after room, empty… computer labs, empty.
It would be a good utilization of the space.
At the cost for all these legacy building universities, no wonder CCs want a part of that action.
Perhaps these CCs are looking to offer an affordable BA/BS (I hope so) as an alternative to these poor graduates owing +$120k for a degree without a guaranteed job.
I worry, though, that this is a maneuver to bolster their profiles, charge more in tuition and rake in more dollars via loans, grants and endowments.
One would hope this would dilute the university system and prompt some real cost savings, but I think anyone who’s been around knows the likely result would be increases in CC costs…and now with Obama pushing for free CC–the costs would be diverted to those of us dumb enough to own property and pay taxes.
I think that if it were done properly, it could be a great option for students and a great asset to the community.
McHenry County College does not need to be a 4 year degree program period!
People are talking about Harper, College of Dupage etc.. is ridiculous!
Look at the population around those schools!
Dupage has about 1,000,000 not including parts of the surrounding counties.
Harper is also smack in the middle of the suburbs.
Will McHenry County which has only 300,000 people draw from any surrounding Counties?
Probably Not!
Plus most of the population that lives on the eastern side of the county is not really far from Harper!
Another point is you have satellites i.e. Aurora College etc.. in McHenry County.
There is no reason for Vicky Smith or anyone else to make MCC a 4 yr. degree program!
If you want to make MCC a 4 yr. program then you will be building a new Field House/workout facility, Science wing, Arts wing etc..
If your going to try and compete with 4 yr. schools it is about the amenities not just the education!
They will then get a football team and more sports programs.
So understand your taxes will go up to supply all of this especially with only 300,000 people in the county!
Live on, you are right on. It looks like Eric only wants to raise taxes. He has to think beyond his nose. The amenities, as you say, will cost a bundle. Tax payers get out your check books.
If you read the white paper and press release from the Illinois Community College Council of Presidents, the recommendations for type of degree are fairly specific.
They list nursing and a few applied technical degrees in areas where there is a defined shortage.
I recommend that anyone interested in this read the the white paper, or even just the six page fact sheet before deciding on a position.
This is a state wide issue for community colleges and I think that bringing it to the attention of the board is appropriate.
It doesn’t necessarily mean there are specific plans in the works for MCC to offer baccalaureate degrees.
However, I can see them considering it for nursing if it were approved.
MCC does have a thriving nursing program so it is relevant to their student population.
As always, Susan and Mark do their research, and that is much appreciated.
I do not immediately consider the offering of baccalaureate degrees by community colleges to be a dumb idea. I think a little more competition for the state universities might actually be a good thing.
To support this idea, though, certain test would need to be met.
First, the community colleges would actually have to offer education comparable to that at four-year colleges. We know for a fact this is too often not the case, that community college courses are weaker than corresponding courses at four-year schools. I have seen it first hand and many, many people I know have experienced the same thing. Please — I am NOT saying ALL community colleges are bad. I’m saying we should be cautious and confirm that the community college does a good job now and will do a good job if it hands out BAs.
Second, the community college would have to offer such programs without additional cost to the taxpayers. Understand again what I’m saying. I am NOT saying if community colleges can offer degrees at a lower cost than state universities it is automatically acceptable. It is too likely that our taxes would go up for a community college BA while expenses at state universities would remain the same or go up, too. So, to repeat, it would have to be shown that the TAXPAYERS would not be damaged by a new program.
Third, the cost to students would have to be lower than at state universities. This particular aspect is a very exciting and real possibility. State universities are overburdened with staff and expensive professors who teach very few courses. The community colleges, while also suffering from bureaucratic sclerosis, are models of efficiency compared with state universities. And they pay teachers less than universities. These are all good things for taxpayers.
So, do I favor community colleges offering bachelors’ degrees? I am, so far, skeptical, as any good citizen should be about any governmental project, but willing to change my opinion based on good evidence and sound reasoning.
Sometimes the 4 year colleges are weaker than the community colleges in their first two years.
How about the impatient graduate assistant who you can barely understand because he can barely speak English?
How about sitting in an auditorium with 300 other students?
How about the computer lab where once again we have the impatient assistants.
How about full time instructors who have not ever been employed in the profession for which they instruct, some of whom are more focused on their research than instructing undergraduates, especially those in their first two years.
You can have an outstanding presentation on YouTube that’s far more beneficial than the boring dude in the auditorium.
Probably the most urgent need in higher education is for students to review their instructors, and those reviews to be posted online, both survey and essay, and the students names remain anonymous, but not the instructors name.
The benefits would far outweigh the drawbacks.
Everyone wants the duds to go or be reassigned, even most of their peers.
But the institution is too afraid of tarnishing its image.