Coral Township Rezoning Sought

Kristin Ottolino of the Citizens Alert Social Media Network sends the following urging people to attend a Zoning Hearing at the McHenry County Administrative Building in Woodstock on Thursday, April 8th from 1:30 PM – 3:30 PM.

To All Concerned McHenry County Citizens,

There is 4.4 million dollars worth of property in Marengo now occupied by what is being called “The Fraternite of Notre Dame”.

They are located at 10002 Harmony Hill Road.

This a Marengo address, however, before I continue, they are not, I repeat NOT inside the town of Marengo, but rather on the outskirts of town (unincorporated area) and are under McHenry County, not the “town of” Marengo, so PLEASE do NOT contact the Mayor of Marengo regarding this email as there is NOTHING he can do to stop this.

Before you stop reading, if you think this will not affect you as a McHenry County citizen, think again, and keep reading.

They [Fraternite of Notre Dame] have plans to expand to add a school/gym complete with a dorm and a nursing home/hospice center with no plans to allow any use of either facility to the citizens of Marengo.

Additionally, they are proposing a commercial kitchen, a winery, a brewery, and a gift shop all without having to pay property taxes, again, under the guise of being a “church”.

Development plans for the property.

Development plans for the property.

This community is an “order” of a “church” under the guise of being a “Catholic Church”, however they are NOT recognized by neither the archdiosis, the vatican, nor the pope… and they never will be as they were NEVER consecrated by the Catholic Church.

They claim otherwise and this information can be found here and needs to be read by anyone living in McHenry County: http://abc7chicago.com/news/boiler-backstory-on-chicago-nuns-left-without-heat-/544757/ [by Chuck Goudie and other on March 4, 2015].

This organization is NOT paying property taxes for their 106.1 acres they have already purchased as they are “tax exempt”.

This will show the revenue being lost by McHenry County amounting to $298,449.00 to date. Attached is the printout of that lost revenue. Read it for yourself.
Coral Twp Lost RETAll property in McHenry County is divided between ALL taxpayers and must be absorbed by you and me as property owners.

So yeah… you can expect your property tax bill to increase because of this eventually.

But that’s not all…

As they continue to collect donations via “GoFundMe” and receive support for the Austin District in Chicago community they are based out of, they own 4.4 million dollars worth of property here in Marengo.

Here is the website to support that information:

http://www.gofundme.com/NotreDameChicago and I strongly encourage you to read this as well: http://patch.com/illinois/homewood-flossmoor/poor-nuns-own-millions-dollars-land-0

They have plans to bus in “troubled youth” from the Austin District in Chicago.

They plan on housing them in the proposed “dormitory.”

I don’t know if you’ve ever been to, or heard about the Austin District in Chicago, but here are the crime statistics from that Austin District for just one month this year:
Austin Crime Reports
If, as a result of this expansion, crime rates reach this proportion here in Marengo, I can only imagine what that will do to our property values. This is my personal concern. I left Chicago over 15 years ago for exactly this reason.

That being said, if you have actually taken the time to check out the links I have already given you, although I have my own opinions on this, I will reserve them here in this “Citizen’s Alert” in order to allow you the chance to form your own opinion.

There have been meetings regarding rezoning this property from “agricultural” to “business.”

There is a really important meeting tomorrow (Thursday) April 8, 7pm – 8pm at 6550 Olson Rd, Union (the Coral Township Building) and those us of who are against this expansion need as many people to show up as possible to stop this.

Also, may I suggest to you if you are a citizen of McHenry County, that you contact your local board members via telephone as soon as possible and let them know your feelings on this matter.

There are 12 votes needed from the board and we only have 9.

The following link (below) takes you to a page with board members phone numbers.

Unfortunately what I do NOT have are the list of who is for and who is against.

I wish I did.

Please call call call!!!!

They are at a board meeting this evening regarding this, so please, if you can, call them tomorrow before the 7 p.m. meeting: https://www.co.mchenry.il.us/county-government/departments-a-i/county-board/meet-your-county-board-members


Comments

Coral Township Rezoning Sought — 32 Comments

  1. so only certain religious organizations should be able to operate with tax exemptions…..

    I get it.

    The constitution was only for those deemed worthy

    this is sad.

  2. Perhaps Ms Ottolino would be relieved of all her worries if only this order of nuns catered to the needs of the poor and downtrodden of Highland Park, Lake Forest and Hubbard Woods.

    Ottolino seems to think that the only churches which can be allowed in her neighborhood are the real holy kind… you know the kind, they just magically appear, have nice buildings, no begging for money to repair stuff, etc.

    Kinda like God is slipping them a shoebox full of 100’s under the table every week.

    Nice clean religion.

    For all those articles she quotes – and God (or whomever) knows just how stellar the reporting is on ABC Channel 7 news, let alone “The Patch” – the most serious complaint anyone raises is “If they are land rich in McHenry County, why can’t they fix their own boilers without assistance?”

    Funny that, the folks who organized the fund raising for them seem to have some connect with them and their work and still support their efforts.

    As for not being a real Catholic Church, that’s nobody’s business but theirs and their congregants.

    Ottolino seems to take great pains to point out crime stats for the Austin police district in Chicago where the nuns apparently are based.

    Guilt by association?

    Maybe, maybe not.

    Ottolino and company better hope that that’s not the case.

    I would hate to think of the reputation the sisters might get once word gets around what their Marengo neighbors are like.

    Why do I suspect that if the Rockford Archdiocese suddenly took over the Marengo property and wanted to convert it to a retirement facility/care center/hospice for elderly clergy there would still be the shrill whine coming from certain quarters in Marengo?

  3. So, Kristin’s message is (1) only officially sanctioned religious organizations deserve to be treated like other churches, and (2) no blacks in McHenry County.

    Fantastic.

  4. Kristin Ottolino is a total nutcase.

    She is also creating a false argument to demonize nuns.

    The sisters are “not recognized” by the Church…..AS AN INDEPENDENT ORDER.

    That has a process in the Catholic Church.

    I have never met these nuns.

    It seems to me they are religious people set out to fulfill their mission.

    Politically active busybodies like Kristin Ottolino want to silence and shut down the sisters.

    Her arguments are filled with typical liberal hatred of religious people based on false or intentionally deceptive arguments.

    Ms Ottolino: sit down and shut up.

    Pay attention to your own family….

    you’ll do better in life.

  5. I think this issue is being redirected away from the point:

    Re zoning ag property for commercial purposes .

    There will presumably be significant water useage to operate winery and distillery.

    The tax exempt status ensures no contributory local competitor can emerge ( at least at low product prices affordable by tax exempt producers).

    And if taxpayer cost burden emerges due to the commercial operations (need for police, roads improvements, water well cone of depression from commercial operation creating dry wells for neigbors), there is a legitimate objection.

  6. I think the question is the Fraternite of Notre Dame a real religious organization or is it a cult

    It is not recognized by the catholic church…

    But they want to give the appearance of being a Catholic Religion…

    their Bishop is Polish but calls himself a Frenchman, and he was ordained by a Vietnamese bishop. non of which is any organized religion…

    we have had our share of Pseudo religions in our time…from Jimmy Jones and the lets drink all the koolaid to the Heavens Gate group who killed themselves so their souls would fit into tiny flying saucers…

    I think it great that we have people in our community that brings things like this to light…

    are they real nly time will tell…

    but I think it is up to the people who live,work and own property in the Marengo area………

    and that people who live in outside ares should just shut FXXX up…

    I do notice that every dissenter uses a fake computer name..

    people with a real cause use their own name……….

  7. Susan, what are you smoking where you think that a commercial use will consume more water than a field of corn?

  8. “but I think it is up to the people who live,work and own property in the Marengo area………

    and that people who live in outside ares should just shut FXXX up…”

    Uh, no. Standing up against petty tyrants and bigots has no geographic limit.

  9. “The tax exempt status ensures no contributory local competitor can emerge ( at least at low product prices affordable by tax exempt producers).”

    Susan is making a bunch of false assumptions here.

    (1) The anticompetitive effects of the property tax subsidy are minimal. If they really wanted to undercut the market (for beer, wine, religious tchotchkes?), they’d place their facility in a zero property tax state like Florida and import the goods to Illinois.

    (2) Why do you think this subsidy is more objectionable than the small business grants and tax breaks Crystal Lake gave to its brewery or that McHenry gave to Chain o Lakes?

    (3) Do we even know for sure that they want to start a commercial operation? If they want to make large amounts of beer and wine commercially, these nuns are bad businesspeople because you need tasty water to make an appealing product, and no one ever has described McHenry County well water as tasty.

  10. Bill,

    Your primary objection in calling these people a scary cult is that they call themselves Catholics but have beliefs and practices that are not sanctioned by the Roman Catholic Church.

    I hate to tell you this, but we already have a word to describe these types of Christians, and it isn’t “cult.”

    The correct term is “Protestant.”

    If you’re suggesting that we run the Episcopalians out of town because they essentially run a Roman Catholic mass (excluding the transubstantiation thing) without approval from Rome, I’d be interested in listening to your argument.

  11. To all that have made up their minds about my “agenda” and my character here:

    Apparently, there are people that enjoy attacking people for speaking out.

    This is exactly why I speak out.

    It’s because of people like you that many people don’t speak out in this community, so I do it for them.

    I am not afraid of you, nor am I afraid of being attacked, neither verbally, nor physically.

    You can bully all you want, and I will not back down, so you are wasting your time attempting to shut me up.

    Perhaps people need to know who I am.

    This I understand.

    Maybe if I tell you, you will feel a bit differently.

    If you don’t, that’s okay, many people in this community do, and they also know that I have the best interest of this community in mind at all times, no matter the cost.

    I don’t feel I need to “explain myself” to you, but I will.

    I am 52 years old. I am from Chicago and moved to Marengo 17 years ago.

    I started working as a nail technician 15 years ago.

    I run the business out of my home.

    I am a single mother raising a child.

    I am an author and have published my first book.

    I am the furthest thing from a “liberal”.

    No, I am not religious, but I am not anti-religious.

    Because I work for a living, I do the best that I can to protect my community via the “Citizen’s Alert Network” that I have founded many years ago.

    I am not against this convent for the work that they do.

    As a matter of fact, I admire them for many things they have done to help the community: feeding the homeless, helping children.. etc.

    I have stated facts, not opinions in my last “Citizen’s Alert” in which Cal has posted here for all to see.

    If you actually READ the alert, nobody is trying to “run this organization out of this town”.

    I am simply concerned about the safety and value of our community.

    The proposed expansion will directly affect anyone living in McHenry County with both increased taxes to EVERYONE in McHenry County, and the risk of our safety as well.

    Because of the expansion, now totaling 101.6 acres of land, and the proposed use of that property, there will be extra fire department, police department, and road usage.

    If you don’t think that will increase our taxes, you are sadly mistaken.

    The unpaid property taxes on the acreage alone must already be absorbed and divided between everyone in McHenry County.

    The proposal on the table by them will obviously add to it.

    I am NOT for an increase in property taxes.

    We already pay (in this county) the highest property taxes in Illinois.

    Perhaps those of you who attack should look at facts before throwing out rude comments.

    I have been called many names as “Rawdogger” seems to enjoy doing.

    Again, you can call me whatever you want to, and I’m still not going to back down on this issue.

    I am a realist.

    I am here to point out the writing on the wall.

    If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck… it’s probably a duck.

  12. “Apparently, there are people that enjoy attacking people for speaking out.

    This is exactly why I speak out.”

    You spoke out.

    Nobody attacked you for the act of speaking out.

    I disagreed with you (and if you want to take that as an attack, so be it) because your opinions are dumb.

    Feel free to speak your mind, but every time you do you run the risk of people pointing out how mistaken your opinions, beliefs, and “facts” are.

    “The proposed expansion will directly affect anyone living in McHenry County with both increased taxes to EVERYONE in McHenry County, and the risk of our safety as well.”

    Nope. The property tax exemption for religious ownership applies whether or not they are granted the conditional use permit.

    “Because of the expansion, now totaling 101.6 acres of land, and the proposed use of that property, there will be extra fire department, police department, and road usage.”

    So? Do you have a problem with other churches being built because they use infrastructure?

    What’s so special about this proposed use that makes Chicken Little fear the sky will fall?

    “I have been called many names as ‘Rawdogger’ seems to enjoy doing.”

    This is what you are doing by refering to “troubled youths” from majority black neighborhoods in Chicago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics

  13. @ Rawdogger, “Nobody attacked you for speaking out” … perhaps you didn’t read the comments here.

    You said, “Your opinions are dumb” …real classy.

    Everyone has opinions and you are not going to stop anyone including me from having them.

    I did not attack you for having yours.

    You wrote, “free to speak your mind, but every time you do you run the risk of people pointing out how mistaken your opinions, beliefs, and “facts” are.” >>>

    I guess that’s a risk I’m willing to take.

    I wrote,

    ““The proposed expansion will directly affect anyone living in McHenry County with both increased taxes to EVERYONE in McHenry County, and the risk of our safety as well.”

    and you wrote,

    “Nope. The property tax exemption for religious ownership applies whether or not they are granted the conditional use permit.”

    Perhaps you should do a bit more research.

    The exemption for the $298,000 plus revenue lost to date on this property WILL be absorbed by all McHenry County taxpayers and that’s a fact.

    No, I do not have a problem with churches because they use infrastructure.

    I do, however, have a problem with fraud.

    I have a problem with questions not being answered as if they have something to hide.

    I have a problem with any organization asking for money when they have OBVIOUSLY spent 4.4 million dollars on Marengo property.

    I have a problem with a church saying they are Catholic when they are neither recognized nor consecrated by the Catholic Church/Archdiocese/Vatican/Pope.

    I have a problem with people in the community just accepting what is thrown our way without diligent research, when it could potentially harm, or endanger our community.

    That being said, I already said I’m not against them helping children.

    I don’t feel they are equipped to handle “troubled youths” and they were even caught admitting that in the meeting.

    You are the one bringing race into this.

    All I did was cite statistics regarding the crime in the Austin District of Chicago which I apparently happen to know more about than you do.

    Please stop being a race-baiter.

    I’ll tell you what Rawdogger, be the bleeding heart you seem to be and go ahead and allow this to happen without any research into how this will affect our community.

    You will be living amongst it all and paying the high property taxes and I will be living in Texas.

    At that point, I won’t care anymore. Just make sure you lock your doors. (wink wink)

  14. Perhaps you are misunderstanding the nature of the religious exemption for property taxes, Kristin.

    They get the property tax exemption by virtue of the fact that they own the property.

    Maybe your thinking is that if they are denied the conditional use permit that they will sell the land back to a farmer or someone else who pays property taxes.

    That thinking is wrong.

    They will still own the property regardless of whether their conditional use permit is granted.

    Considering their already-approved plans for construction and the fact that they have already built on the site, the nuns are there to stay.

    The only question is whether they get the conditional use permit to expand.

    The conditional use permit will have zero effect on what they pay in taxes.

  15. You write:

    “I do, however, have a problem with fraud. I have a problem with questions not being answered as if they have something to hide.”

    I, on the other hand, have a problem with busy bodies thinking they have the right to examine every aspect of a prospective neighbor. They asked for donations at one point. Members of their community voluntarily donated money to them. That is none of your business, busy body.

    You write:

    “I have a problem with a church saying they are Catholic when they are neither recognized nor consecrated by the Catholic Church/Archdiocese/Vatican/Pope.”

    Thankfully, you are not someone who gets to say how people privately practice their own religious beliefs. This is America. The right to free exercise of religion is so important to us that it is in the very first amendment to the Constitution. Their private exercise of their own religious beliefs is, again, none of your business, busy body.

  16. I understand that they get the exemption because they already own the property Rawdogger.

    That alone, is upsetting enough as we already have to absorb that in our property taxes.

    What concerns me is how much our taxes are going to increase (property taxes) when, because of this expansion, there will be additional road use, fire department usage, police department usage, and a further increase in our property taxes as a result of it.

    I’m sorry if I didn’t make myself clear on that.

    This whole thing is very upsetting on so many levels.

    If you didn’t make it to the meeting, you really need to see how that went as well.

    VERY many questions went unanswered and it was very disturbing.

    I am trying to dig up where I saw that information to give it to you and everyone here.

  17. @ Rawdogger, There you go with the name calling again.

    I am not going to engage in your elementary school tactics.

    I will say, however, in response to your comment, and your need to call me a busy body, that my above comments speak for themselves.

    If you don’t understand why I said what I said, perhaps you should get someone to explain them to you.

  18. Here’s another link you may actually consider reading.

  19. You write:

    “What concerns me is how much our taxes are going to increase (property taxes) when, because of this expansion, there will be additional road use, fire department usage, police department usage, and a further increase in our property taxes as a result of it.”

    Do you have any specific reason to believe that police and fire will have to hire additional employees or that there will be enough traffic coming in and out of this place to cause additional wear on the roads, or are you just flinging stuff at the wall to see if it will stick?

  20. With respect to the concerns about the donations, I don’t care.

    They asked for money and people gave it to them.

    Other than being completely irrelevant to the question of whether their proposed use should be permitted (and I would looooove to hear you contort logic to make that connection), it’s really none of your business.

  21. @ Rawdogger, how in sam hell is it that you think they are going to build all these proposed buildings?

    Do you think they are going to fly in these materials using little alien spaceships?

    What about all the construction vehicles that will be using our roads for who knows how long? Do you not think this will have an impact on our roads???

    Come on… be for real here.

    Regarding the donations, I couldn’t care what they collect, but the fact is they are using the Gofundme.com account under the false pretenses of being a Catholic Church which they are NOT.

    There is my logic.

    And for the record, it IS my business that people come into this town under fraudulent claims, want to build a school to bring in “troubled youth” when they have no degree to back their claim of being able to handle it, want to put up buildings with no plans for height levels, or dimensions, and as the citizen that went to the meeting eloquently put it:

    “Repeatedly almost every question being asked was either met with an absolute yes, only to be proven not accurate, truthful or precise”.

    Yeah Rawdogger, this bothers me.

    It is ABSOLUTELY my business and the business of everyone in McHenry County as well.

    They couldn’t answer one question with neither truth, nor fact.

    Apparently you haven’t read what was in the link, so I’ll put it here for you:

    _______________________________________________________________________________________________________
    Only 10 people live on the current compound and they believe this is enough to cover all of the needs of the School, Brewery, Wine making and building requirements.

    Then it was backed up with additional volunteers will come to help but no one can say how many or who they would be.

    Here are some of the questions asked by Attorney Cuda representing Coral Township:

    Steve Cuda-attorney representing Coral Township asks:.

    How many barrels of beer or wine do you plan to produce: We do not know?
    How much water and other raw materials will be required: We do not know
    Will any of the products be sold elsewhere: we do not know?
    How much money do you make on selling the current items: Rick Kelly jumped in and said they were not obligated to answer this question.
    Did you operate a go fund site where you collected almost 300K/: Yes, we did.
    What will stop you from doing that again expecting the taxpayer to fund this operation: Nothing but we will not do it again.
    How much money will be used for the mission of helping the poor: We do not know
    How much will it cost you to build the compound: We do not know?
    How much will the septic system cost: We do not know
    Will you sell food, Yes, Bread, pastries, canned fruits and vegetables?
    Are you licensed to sell food: Yes, from who and what organization>>>Well I do not know. We will be approved.
    Are you able to run and teach in a school? Yes, you mean you have a US education and teaching certificate. Well no but we will get it…
    Therefore, if the children you will bring from the Austin area will have special needs what you will do. Well, we will get those helps for the children…
    From where? Well we do not know but we will get them
    How many children in 2003 were in private schools in McHenry County from that list you were given…4,800 in 2003…now in 2013 how many…$3,800…is that $1,000 less? Yes…
    However, you still feel we need another private school? No answer.
    How much will you charge for the school? We do not know. Will they be boys or girls? We do not know
    How will be in charge of each operation? We do not know
    When you first requested permission to build, did you say on that paperwork that you would not ask for any variances? I don’t know…Well yes you did…
    Are you now meeting with zoning to ask for height restrictions? Yes…
    You said on this petition that the one building will be Barn like…Please tell us what that means.
    Well it will be concrete. Very strong…
    Will it be a wood structure? Oh..yYes… Yes. Like that…
    What will the size be? Oh, I do not know…Like a barn
    So it will be made of wood? No no brick and concrete
    Well that does not sound like a barn, as we know it. What will the shape be? Like a barn…
    Shaped like a Barn? Well I do not know…
    It does not sound like a barn.
    Are you asking for over height permission? Yes,
    So this will be a mega Barn? Yes, very big.

    There we a number of Franternite supporters who may have come from Chicago and all spoke with accents. I had never seen any of them before.

    The entire time was: I don’t know answers..

    And with Mr Kelly blocking their answer to how much revenue they made its impossible to know their financial situation.

    Quite honestly I wonder if the go fund me has any protections in place from scammers …

    The community and the Government has a right to their financial information give the tax free status they enjoy and fund raising based upon need.
    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    As a side note: As Tallen so brilliantly put it: “The worst part will be the example the County Board sets by over turning their own UDO because if they let this project go forward than why can’t Ag land be converted to a winery and brewery any where else in the County. We need the Board to stand by their UDO.”

  22. You write:

    “@ Rawdogger, how in sam hell is it that you think they are going to build all these proposed buildings?

    Do you think they are going to fly in these materials using little alien spaceships?

    What about all the construction vehicles that will be using our roads for who knows how long?

    Do you not think this will have an impact on our roads???

    Come on… be for real here.”

    US Route 20 is a Class II truck route for its entire span in Illinois, from the Iowa border to the Indiana border.

    This means that any truck driving on US 20 can legally weigh up to 80,000 lbs on four axles and 100,000 lbs on five or more axles without the need for a special permit.

    The proposed build site is 2 miles (not as the crow flies, but tracing the shortest route) from the intersection of US 20 and Church Road.

    If they needed it, Illinois DOT considers the road wear from 80k/100k truck traffic to be so minimal that they do not even require a permit for this type of traffic.

    If they need an overweight or oversize vehicle to come in, Illinois DOT considers the wear on the roads created by this traffic to be so minimal that the overweight permits are shall issue.

    And that is assuming they even need overweight permits to transport construction materials and equipment to the site.

    99% of construction projects don’t need them.

    So again, chicken little, you are grasping at straws here.

    You write:

    “Regarding the donations, I couldn’t care what they collect, but the fact is they are using the Gofundme.com account under the false pretenses of being a Catholic Church which they are NOT.”

    Do you have a problem with the Eastern Orthodox Church referring to themselves as “Catholic?”

    If not, why draw the distinction here?

    You write:

    “And for the record, it IS my business that people come into this town under fraudulent claims, want to build a school to bring in “troubled youth” when they have no degree to back their claim of being able to handle it, want to put up buildings with no plans for height levels, or dimensions.”

    It’s really not your business.

    Do you think you would have the right to inspect a residential neighbor’s finances and history before they would be permitted to move next door?

    Absolutely not.

    With respect to concerns about building height levels and dimensions, you’re putting the cart before the horse.

    That’s a question for whether they will get building permits, not a question for whether they should be granted a conditional use permit.

    With respect to your concerns about “troubled youths,” we all get that you don’t want black kids from Austin coming into McHenry County, but anyone with any sense who is not a virulent racist is laughing at your concerns.

    You’re trying to burn a metaphorical cross in the front yard of the nuns’ project, only instead of implying violence against the wrong-colored persons with the intention of forcing them to leave, you’re trying to close the door before they even come.

  23. You write:

    “As a side note: As Tallen so brilliantly put it:

    “The worst part will be the example the County Board sets by over turning their own UDO because if they let this project go forward than why can’t Ag land be converted to a winery and brewery any where else in the County. We need the Board to stand by their UDO.””

    What’s your concern with converting AG-zoned land to commercial?

    It’s certainly not this whole “we need to conserve ground water” b.s. because I can guarantee that even intense commercial usage will use less water than 100 acres of corn.

    Or is this just you being a busy body who thinks she has the right to dictate what people do with their own land?

    Can you point to one negative externality created by having 100 acres of corn become 100 acres of nature preserve?

  24. I usually don’t take any opinions posted by people who “Hide” behind funny names seriously but i shall make an exception.

    Rawdogger can you tell me how often you go into the inner city and help troubled youth? I encourage you to continue to do it because is really admirable but you don’t have the right to tell anyone else how they should give back.

    When it comes to my community and tax dollars I am a BIG busy body and I wear this badge with true American honor.

    This is why I and 100’s of other people in Marengo and surrounding communities are truly grateful for all the hard work and information Kristin Ottolino puts into the community alert that many people depend upon for information.

    Given that on average just 7 percent of Marengo voted perhaps you could put your efforts into encouraging people to become BUSy BODIES and get involved for the welfare of the community by learning about the issues and pulling away from their IPHONE or IPAD or T.V. and voting .We make decisions in a fair and civilized way.

    I live by: I may not agree with what you say but I will die defending it. That is the American way and being part of being an American..!!!

    I have another suggestion for the Franterne who make it clear that they somehow know better than the experts we have here in the U.S.A. on so many of the charity fronts that they might have a look at all of the unrest going on in France with freedom of speech, civil riots,ISIS, crime and poverty. None of us have a full answer but i strongly think that being close to where the issues are is not only sensible but it makes good financial sense as well.

    And those trying to be helped typically accept the help from people in their own community not outsiders. The data on this is very very clear. Color has nothing to do with anything. But culture is very important. Being part of the local community where help is provided is very important.

    Kristin Ottolino is a smart articulate person and I thank her for her contributions.

  25. Thank you Cynthia! …and very well put.

    LOL I was just going to post back at Rawdogger to ask what HE has done for the community lately, but figured my efforts would be futile.

    I’m done here.

    Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon…no matter how good you are, the bird is going to crap on the board and strut around like it won anyway.

  26. Just so you all know, there is a long tradition of “Catholic” monasteries making and selling stuff, in order to support themselves and their charitable works.

    Any decent beer shop will carry several brands of beer brewed at monasteries in Europe, for example.

    Monasteries may also make coffins, fruit cakes, wines, bakery goods, religious articles, clothing, etc.

    I honestly don’t see what the issue is here.

    It sounds like religious bigotry, especially with the background of vandalism committed on their property back in January 2006, and since.

  27. Relevant issues:

    1. Water use cost and brewery effluent wastewater treatment cost. These costs can be substantial, depending upon production volume.
    Has the conditional use permit application stated an annual production volume limit requested?

    2. School funding. The diversion of State, Federal, and local property tax funds to a restricted- access school may be of concern to residents of school district.

    3. Hospice funding. The diversion of Medicare and Medicaid funds to a restricted- access medical facility may be of concern to residents of County.

    4. Fire and Rescue service availability. If expansion of equipment and personnel are required will the local taxpayers be required to bear that entire cost burden?

  28. Kristin, Cynthia, Susan,

    No-one said that the students will come from the Austin neighbourhood of Chicago.

    Their church gets members from all around Chicago and suburbs far and near.

    None of their church members have “troubled youths”.

    Do seriously think that they would bring troubled youths to disrupt the harmony of the boarding students or the school.

    Since I personally know the members of that church, you are wrong on that account.

    “How much will you charge for the school? We do not know. Will they be boys or girls? We do not know
    How will be in charge of each operation? We do not know”.

    Again, these questions are premature.

    They have over a 100 religious members, they rotate around their various missions.

    Who could know in 2 years what person will be in charge of any of the projects.

    That is not being vague, it is just too far in the future to know.

    “Are you able to run and teach in a school? Yes, you mean you have a US education and teaching certificate. Well no but we will get it…”

    They run schools and teach in several countries.

    Several of the religious members have multiple degrees.

    They were engineers, carpenters, librarians, school masters, electricians, iron workers, bee keepers, business people, farmers, nurses, and doctor, before becoming religious members.

    Religious communities have produced excellent schools of education before any other entity since the middle ages.

    In Europe and the United State those schools run by religious organizations produce students that excel far more than those in public/ state funded schools.

    Why do think some parents choose to avoid the state funded schools (besides paying their taxes), and still will fork out money for tuition to send their children to private/ faith-based schools.

    “Therefore, if the children you will bring from the Austin area will have special needs what you will do. Well, we will get those helps for the children…
    From where? Well we do not know but we will get them”

    Again Mr Cuda is conjecting an idea that Kristin and others have voiced.

    No-one is going to bring troubled children or special needs children to the school.

    Most likely they will not come from the Austin neighbourhood, because most of our church members come from around Chicago and the suburbs.

    The Mother Superior at the first zoning meeting told the people that any child with special needs would be referred to more appropriate schools.

    Their school is going to be a preparatory school for higher education.

    They presently have several children in their small school program.

    None of them is “troubled” and each of those students have expressed how they love being in the country, how nice and quite it is, and they get to help with the animals.

    The school will not use tax dollars, private schools charge a tuition.

    There are several schools that cater to special needs children.

    They have on staff physical therapist, occupational therapist, speech therapist, nurses, and special ed teachers.

    Since I take care of a Down-syndrome child, the parents of those special needs children tend to seek out schools that specialize in the development of those children.

    The sisters will refer those children should they seek to apply to those more appropriate schools.

    Your supposition is all conjecture.

    The sisters’ school will be a preparatory school for higher education–Notre Dame Academy.

    “Did you operate a go fund site where you collected almost 300K/: Yes, we did.”

    After buying the extra 30 acres over a year ago; they then applied for the zoning permit last year before the boilers in the Chicago church broke down and became unrepairable.

    Several companies gave them a quote to replace the boilers. The 200k cost was not what they were expecting.

    They did not have that money upfront to do the repairs.

    Good, kind people started the Gofundme account to help out the sisters.

    Frankly, I think it was a miracle that they were able to get slightly over 200K (not even close to 300K) of money over a weekend.

    But that is how they survive, it is through donations.

    None of them, not even the bishop gets a wage from all the work they do.

    Even at the bakery shop in Vernon Hills, the volunteers that help out also do not get a wage.

    Land and property can be bought with a mortgage.

    New buildings can be built with a mortgage.

    I believe most people go by that payment plan.

    Some very helpful benefactors helped them with the down-payments.

    And yes, we are all Roman Catholic, and practice the Roman Catholic faith. We do not scam, defraud, or cheat our members or other people.

    God’s commandment is “Do not steal, do not bear false witness”.

    However, what makes you think you are entitled to look into their finances. They are not running for office.

    You are not banking their projects.

    And considering many of their church members are poor, the coffers of the church collection are meager compared to other parish churches.

    However, they do accept donations of cash, cheques, endowments, and property.

    All of which are legal tender. They have to struggle to make a living out of the cakes and cookies they sell.

    They work in a lot of market areas in Chicago and the suburbs. Not everyone is going to buy cakes and cookies, it does not appeal to everyone.

    “Are you licensed to sell food: Yes, from who and what organization>>>Well I do not know. We will be approved.”

    They have a license to sell from the State of Illinois Dept of Regulation, just like any seller’s enterprise.

    That is the law.

    Mother Superior is not the accountant, she was not in a position to know.

    But be assuredd they have the license because they sell their bakery goods in Vernon Hills, and in farmers markets.

    The winery and brewery, and canning of their organic produce will appeal to a much broader clientele.

    They need to bring other sources of income to support themselves (the order has increased over the past ten years), and support the projects of their mission.

    The boarding school and nursing home/ hospice center will be part of their continued mission.

    They have built a small hospital and several medical clinics in other countries.

    They have doctors, nurses, and medical personal that help them.

    Many people are confused by how we stand with the Catholic Church. Individually, we are all Roman Catholic, we practice the Roman Catholic faith.

    However, they are new religious order, started in the 1970s.

    They have tried to put their order under the umbrella of the Vatican.

    They met with Pope John Paul ll, and he sent to Paris, France an emissary to visit their convent and mission and see how their lives serve the church’s vision of corporal works.

    However, a homosexual/ pedophiliac bishop that they had in earlier years refused to support his depraved lifestyle had promised to stump any efforts they made to move their cause under the umbrella of the Vatican.

    This was his vengeance for them not supporting his lifestyle.

    He stopped the emissary from visiting the convent and mission, and sent the emissary back to Rome.

    They never got the justice due to them to move under the auspices of the Vicar of Rome, the pope.

    We have supported all the popes, and the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church.

    They have applied again, and we ask for your prayers for their success in this effort.

    They use small vans and trucks, themselves.

    Do any of you complain when the big grainery trucks, or the combine harvesters move down your country roads around harvest time?

    Apparently as these big trucks serve your farming purposes, their impact on your road are “ok”.

    Seems a bit selfish to me. Your country roads are all class II roads as well as Route 20 and Harmony Hill Rd.

    The few cars, small vans or moving truck they have do little to add to the wear and tear of your roads.

    You are being hysterical in your suppositions.

    Did anyone complain when the 38 large houses in the subdivision across Harmony Hill Rd were built?

    What about the noise from those bulldozers, those large trucks that delivered building materials?

    Of course not.

    As long as it serves your purpose, or bring tax dollars, those trucks and the construction building noise is tolerable.

    How can they know how many bottles of beer or wine they will make when they are not in production yet.

    The questions are premature.

    That’s why “they don’t know.

    It is not being vague.

    “How much money will be used for the mission of helping the poor: We do not know
    How much will it cost you to build the compound: We do not know?
    How much will the septic system cost: We do not know”

    Most of the funds they use are donations, even the food stuff for the pantry is all donated.

    At the time those questions were asked Mother Superior did not have a cost breakdown of the proposed projects.

    She did not expect those questions, nor is she the treasurer.

    But by the end of the Zoning hearings the cost was over a million dollars to build the environmentally sustainable school, and over 600 million to build the environmentally sustainable nursing home/ hospice center.

    That is including the septic systems, which the EPA Mr. Moscat said the property would easily sustain.

    He also said the wetland feature is not protected, it is not spring fed, but low grade water collection, from rain.

    No protected animals exist there.

    “You said on this petition that the one building will be Barn like…Please tell us what that means.
    Well it will be concrete. Very strong…
    Will it be a wood structure? Oh..yYes… Yes. Like that…
    What will the size be? Oh, I do not know…Like a barn
    So it will be made of wood? No no brick and concrete
    Well that does not sound like a barn, as we know it. What will the shape be? Like a barn…
    Shaped like a Barn? Well I do not know…
    It does not sound like a barn.
    Are you asking for over height permission? Yes,
    So this will be a mega Barn? Yes, very big.”

    In Europe, I lived there for 11 years, many of the barns are made of concrete brick or stones.

    Some with galvanized roofs, wood roofs, or concrete roofs.

    They are made sturdy to last hundreds of years.

    So this is not a problem for the sisters.

    Obviously Mr Cuda, has not spent time on European farms.

    A barn does not have to be wooden.

    More wood barns exist in the USA because forest wood was plentiful.

    You will just have to think out-side-the-box.

    “And with Mr Kelly blocking their answer to how much revenue they made its impossible to know their financial situation.
    Quite honestly I wonder if the go fund me has any protections in place from scammers …
    The community and the Government has a right to their financial information give the tax free status they enjoy and fund raising based upon need.”

    I agree with rawdogger: “It’s really not your business.
    Do you think you would have the right to inspect a residential neighbor’s finances and history before they would be permitted to move next door? Absolutely not.”

    They are not running for office, or taking money from the government, or your taxes.

    They are a private enterprise,trying to live out peaceful lives in the country.

    Unless the neighbours want to bank-roll these projects, they are not entitled to know about their finances, or business history.

    Any more than if I asked the local farmers or businesses to layout their business plans or finances just because I was curious.

    That is just plain arrogance.

    “1. Water use cost and brewery effluent waste water treatment cost. These costs can be substantial, depending upon production volume.
    Has the conditional use permit application stated an annual production volume limit requested?”

    They want to build a micro-brewery and micro-winery.

    There are 25 large swimming pools among 38 houses in the subdivision across the road.

    There are another 20 pools of water in the neighbourhood east of Route 20.

    That is a lot of well-water.

    They would not be able to make as much beer or wine to fill all those large pools of water.

    They are not building factories, nor do they have land like Nappa Valley.

    There are two other monasteries in Mc Henry County that have received their zoning variances and building permits for beer and wine making.

    Why should the FND church group be any different?

    Or denied the means of support for their continued ministries?

    “2. School funding. The diversion of State, Federal, and local property tax funds to a restricted- access school may be of concern to residents of school district.”

    No-one is going to divert monies from the county, state or federal funds.

    The school will charge a tuition, as most private schools do.

    “3. Hospice funding. The diversion of Medicare and Medicaid funds to a restricted- access medical facility may be of concern to residents of County.”

    Many religious run nursing homes are on restricted land, most are on private property.

    Most are in residential neighbourhoods.

    Some are on main streets.

    Mostly all of your private hospitals, nursing homes accept medicare and Medicaid funds.

    However, medicaid takes over a year to pay their bills.

    Many insurance companies pay for nursing home and end of life care.

    The building will have to be built first, and go through a rigorous inspection process before it will be validated to receive Medicare and Medicaid funds.

    “4. Fire and Rescue service availability. If expansion of equipment and personnel are required will the local taxpayers be required to bear that entire cost burden?”

    What makes you think more personnel will need to be hired?

    They are not building another town.

    Did the Fire and Rescue service have to hire more personnel when the subdivision across Harmony Hill Rd was built?

    Let me add since the ZBA hearings have concluded: Mr Tarabein, a real estate expert in residential and industrial properties, stated that you need to look at the whole of the property to see what the main purpose is.

    He stated, its a church, a school, and a nursing home, all are residential. Not industrial.

    The micro-brewery/kitchen/micro-winery are too small to impact the overall purpose of the property.

    The UDO also labels nursing homes as residential whether they are built in a business district or a residential district.

    The only difference is the type of landscaping that must be used, respectively.

    If we build the micro-brewery, we already know that it will entail management of waste water.

    We know how expensive it will be.

    Water use will be consumed in an environmentally sustainable way.

    The buildings plumbing systems will have designed into it water saving features.

    They want to make their land and building an Environmentally Sustainable jewel.

    They are asking for the gift shop to be able to sell their bakery goods, spiritual items/ books.

    Most churches have bingo nights, bakes sales, and carnivals to help raise money for their schools and church ministries.

    Why this church group should be denied that privilege of making extra money for their ministries is quite unfair.

    This church group also serves coffee, tea, and sweet-rolls after church services.

    It helps our church members to visit with each other.

    Presently the sisters only have a truck trailer to serve the members in.

    It would be nice to be able to sit at table in a purpose built gift shop where we can also get our usual after service treats.

    The truck trailer can be very cold in the winter months.

    The traffic expert, Miss Kelly Connelly, already explained that the traffic coming on and off the property in peak hours would not impinge on Harmony Hill Rd.

    The few cars from the school or nursing home (at change of shift) would be very negligible.

    She recommended that Stop Signs be placed on the sisters property at the exit points.

    There is one last thought I wish to leave with the good folks of McHenry County board and the citizens of McHenry County.

    President Clinton signed into law the Federal Religious Land Use Law and Institutionalized Persons Act of 2000.

    It is designed to to protect religious assemblies from zoning and historic landmark laws that substantially interfere with their religious free exercise to conduct their ministries.

    This includes churches, mosques, and synagogues, in the use of land and buildings for religious purposes

    Because history showed, as it still seems to do, that land-use regulations were often applied more onerously to religious minorities.

    If you deny this good group of religious sisters and friars from performing the ministerial work they are accustomed to, you in fact place upon them a substantial burden.

    You must also treat all the religious entities in McHenry County the same.

    To date there have been approximately 25 cases of other religious groups seeking zoning variances for their properties, including 2 other monasteries for beer and wine making, and also the building of a mosque in Chrystal Lake, IL.

    All of them got their zoning variances.

    Most without much of a “boo” from their neighbours.

    Why this Order of nuns and friars should have so much opposition can only appear as local persecution and intolerance.

    Well, I think I have answered most of your questions.

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