Charles and Raffel Roads Roundabout Proposal Comes Around Again, Despite Defeat in Committee Day after Election

Coming around to the McHenry County Transportation Committee for the second time in three weeks is a $2,229,600 proposal to build a roundabout north of the Woodstock North High School on Raffel Road where it dead ends at Charles Road.

The $2.2 million comes from property taxes.

What makes this of more than passing interest is that the Committee rejected the idea on a 2-3 vote the day after the March 15th Primary Election at which Committee Chairwoman Anna May Miller saw her bid to be re-nominated for County Board member thwarted.
Roundabout Rafffle + Charles Roads Rejection 3-16-16

Here is what the minutes say happened the first time the proposal faced the Transportation Committee (after Ken Koehler was replaced by Jeff Thorsen):

The first time the Charles-Raffle Road roundabout spending approval was before the County Board's Transportation Committee, the measure failed 2-3.

The first time the Charles-Raffle Road roundabout spending approval was before the County Board’s Transportation Committee, the measure failed 2-3.

The intersection of Raffel and Charles Roads has been targeted by the Transportation Department for a $2.2 million roundabout because of bus traffic between Woodstock North High School on Raffel Road and the School District 200 school bus storage facility on busy Charles Road.

The intersection of Raffel and Charles Roads has been targeted by the Transportation Department for a $2.2 million roundabout because of bus traffic between Woodstock North High School on Raffel Road and the School District 200 school bus storage facility on busy Charles Road.

Here’s what the memo describing the project says:

The Charles Road at Raffel Road intersection was identified as a project in the 2009-2013 Highway Improvement Program (a.k.a. Transportation Program) to address safety (to reduce severe angle collisions) and traffic concerns. The intersection is currently experiencing more accidents than the national average for a similar type of intersection.

On August 6, 2014, after receiving input from the public and evaluating different types of improvements, the Transportation Committee gave consensus to move forward with the roundabout design as it addressed the safety and traffic operation concerns identified.

The roundabout has been designed to handle larger vehicles including school buses, semitrailers and farm equipment.

There were three bidders with the low bidder coming in at $2,229,600.00. The engineer’s estimate was $2,874,920.00. A 15% contingency has been added to the appropriation to account for variations in quantities and any unforeseen circumstances. The appropriated amount of $2,600,000.00 will be from the FY2016 Matching Fund

A forensic auditor with expertise in construction projects advised that he was not bothered by contingency fees of 5% or less.= = = = =
Having caused the problem by putting is school bus operation on Charles Road, one might think that Woodstock School District 200 would be tapped for the cost.

See also $10 Million More to “Expedite” Randall Road Right-of-Way Purchases, which will be considered at the same meeting next Wednesday morning.


Charles and Raffel Roads Roundabout Proposal Comes Around Again, Despite Defeat in Committee Day after Election — 59 Comments

  1. School districts and other government units keep putting referendums on ballots until they get passed.

    When a McHenry County Board member does not get what she / he wants passed by a committee or by the Board, she / he just keeps bringing it back until they achieve their goal.

    Pressure needs to be placed on the County Engineer AND Anna May Miller AND other members of the Transportation Committee to STOP Anna May from expediting the approval of projects which she may or may not have promised to some.

    IMO we need to put an end to the control of MCDOT being exerted by companies engaged in the highway construction business via Anna May Miller.

    FYI The County Engineer (currently Mr. Korpalski) is listed as having a pay package of $181,109.14 in 2015.

    His compensation includes $6,000 per year car allowance.

  2. The Charles Road at Raffel Road intersection was identified as a project in the 2009-2013 Highway Improvement Program (a.k.a. Transportation Program) to address safety (to reduce severe angle collisions) and traffic concerns. The intersection is currently experiencing more accidents than the national average for a similar type of intersection.

    The intersection has been identified, now not doing anything opens the county to liability.

    One accident with a death could cost the county more than the cost of improving the intersection

    A different type of improvement my cost a little less to install, but in the long run a roundabout is cheaper and saves fuel also.

    Perhaps the negative people should learn about a accident in Streamwood where a know road problem was not addressed.

    The lawsuit which the Village lost had a reward so high the property taxes had to be raised to pay for the lawsuit.

    When politics gets in the way of doing what is right, we have problems Houston.

  3. Nob’s right.

    Roundabouts are a fiscally responsible way to deal with problem intersections.

  4. I didn’t attend the meeting, without the minutes and dialog of the conversation before the vote it would be hard to give a good judgement of why the three that voted no thinking it’s OK to put the county in a increased liability situation.

    Perhaps they could comment here way they voted no, or Cal may have that info to share with us?

    Do the no voters have a alternative plan that will cost less

    If so what is their solution other than doing nada?

    Mr. Korpalski a PE, compensation is relative to his training, experience, and responsibilities, check around if you don’t believe the facts.

    Engineering standards are nation wide and are up dated regularly, always with safety factors built in and designs that should prevent improvements from falling apart in to short of a time period.

    The two that voted for the change have the most experience in this field, yet they are often accused of getting bribed with no prove they are getting anything other than what is normal political contributions every politician gets.

    What a bunch of narrow minded nonsense for political gain.

  5. Kelly, sight distance and angles play into it, and there is no guarantees the people will obey the speed limit or grant the right away either.

    Police can’t sit there around the clock, the roundabout design forces people to slow down yet allows movement to continue which saves fuel.

  6. I could find no minutes for the meeting where the vote took place.

  7. By Nob’s logic, no school speed zones (and stiff penalties for ignoring them) are adequate, and every accident in school zones as a result of drivers ignoring speed limits should result in multi-millon dollar liability for County.

    Furthermore Nob ignores lowered impact (pun intended) of a collision at reduced speeds.

    Also by Nob’s logic, every project promoted by any politician who has ‘experience’ (defined, I suppose, by having voted for hundreds of millions of taxpayer funded projects) is meritorious.

    Those who question any logical aspect of such a scheme must be deemed ‘narrow minded’.

    By my logic, I would characterize those Board Members who seek to perform due diligence and perform independent analyses of a project’s merit BROAD-minded.

  8. If it’s on a county road then it’s the county that would be sued.

    Sometimes you have to improve roads including intersections people!

    It costs money, tax money.

    If you don’t keep up with capital expenditures you’re kicking the can down the road.

    Road improvements aren’t the problem. Valley high, MCCD and pensions are.

    Once again it is MCDOT asking for these improvements, Anna Miller chairs the committee that makes a recommendation to the county board.

    They vote for it or they don’t.

  9. Some of the Companies which have made donations to the Miller campaign fund:

    Alexander Equipment Company, Inc.

    Alliance Contractors Inc.

    Allied Benefit Systems Inc.

    American Asphalt Surface Recycling, Inc.

    American Auto Sales Inc.


    Baxter & Woodman, Inc.

    Behm Pavement Maintenance Inc.

    Berger Excavating Contractors, Inc.

    Bollinger Lach & Associates Inc.

    Bonnell Industries Inc.

    Corsair Systems & Equipment

    Curran Contracting Company

    Fiji Construction Inc.

    Fox Mechanical Inc.

    Geske & Sons Inc.

    H.R. Stewart Inc.

    Heritage Title Co. of McHenry

    Hi-Viz Inc.

    HR Green

    Mathewson Right of Way Company

    Matuszewich Kelly & McKeever LLP

    Merryman Excavation Inc.

    Meyer Material Company

    PAKO Corporation

    Power Equipment Leasing Co.

    Smith Engineering Consultants Inc.

    Standard Equipment Company

    Tomasello’s Landscaping


  10. The Mrs.: The committee voted it down, why is it being brought back?

  11. Susan, I said there is a potential for big law suits, try not putting your words into my lips.

    I ignore no facts or possibilities, that’s why I’m saying don’t do nothing, address the know problem.

    When did I say all projects offered by politicians are meritorious?

    Rather I have learned not to trust any politician, that’s why I asked for more info to see who’s head is where the sun doesn’t shine.

    Questioning is fine, but saying no without a plan is a problem, only solutions earn my respect.

    You last sentence I totally agree with, but where is that BROAD-minded displayed for all to see?

    I see a negative piece with no solution, just rock throwing for political gain.

    Connect the dots,

    I know the Millers very well, and some of the other board members also.

    I’m Mike W. and Andrew’s shadow, right here on this blog.

    The Miller’s made their mistakes by hiring family and now it’s catching up to them.

    Oh well I told them so.

    It still doesn’t take away the fact they know more about roads than most of the people whining about them.

    There is no proof that I know of they are dirty or are trying to make $$$$ for the contractors, only trying to keep the positions they have by getting rid of the squeaky wheel, a common deal with all elected.

    Run yourself if you can do it better, I’ll sign for ya, competition is a good thing.

  12. Connect the dots,

    Short list, most of their political funds come from a well attended Wine and Cheese party done once a year.

    All legal, but say if you want to stop all contributions from people that work for the gov, I’ll sign up for that also.

    Now give me proof that those political contributions lead to misuse of funds?

  13. Connect the dots, how does a no vote benefit us if the problem doesn’t get solved.

    Kicking the can down the road isn’t a good solution is it?

    McDOT the professionals we hire have presented a solution,

    Anna and Don agree with them.

    Do you have a better solution?

    Share it please.

  14. Is the Nob a fear monger?

    Daily I read / see threats about Climate Change;

    threats from the IRS;

    threats from the Attorney General;

    threats from terrorists;

    threats of strikes by unions;

    threats of Niburu;

    threats from gangs;

    etc., etc;.

    Am I really concerned about the threat of a lawsuit? Could putting in roundabout not result in lawsuits also?

    How about a different solution to the problem created due to the placement of the D-200 bus garage which was ignorantly built on Charles Rd.?

    There is a forty acre parcel to the south of the bus garage.

    It is assessed at $10,786.

    That would put market value at under $50,000.

    Buy that property for say $100,000 and run a driveway south and west through the property already owned by the school district.

    Let the school buses dump on to Raffel.

  15. Questioning:

    Good idea!

    They won’t do that because the School District would have to pick up the tab.

    By routing the bus along Charles to Raffel, the school district gets to charge all of McHenry County taxpayers to solve a problem they created because they did not want an ‘unsightly’ bus garage next to the High School!!!

    However, it is a great idea.

    Think of the fuel efficiency achieved by having a driveway direct to the High School in place of routing via Charles and Raffel.

  16. Questioning, good point about the buses, but when the buses leave the school, somewhere they still access Charles road, so the solution has to include the other intersection also.

    There must be a problem there in the design, and that needs to be solved.

    Fear mongering, or telling the facts can be one in the same.
    You seem to be worried about your property taxes, as am I, that is a fear most of us hold.

    I’m trying to logically control those costs, if you see it otherwise, you are wrong.

    Also by buying that property to connect the two other school properties, you will have just cut revenue by taking that property off the tax rolls.

    Short term gain for potential long term lose.

    Cary bought some property on 14 at 2nd, 700k some time back.

    Big idea’s of development, lots more tax revenue.
    No buyers even for a now list price of less than half the purchase price.

    I advised against, made political enemies, all I can say is
    I told you so.

    It’s nice to be right. LOL

  17. Not long ago Cal posted about the roundabout proposed on River road also.

    If you’ve driven there and know the deal the intersection there is a safety problem also.

    Past designs of intersections are a problem we must deal with now.

    Not my fault, not my idea to spend big bucks to fix either.
    Kicking the can down the road got us a Fed debt of 19T, doing nothing is not a solution.

  18. Time for the Nob’s rant again, sorry I’m not a English major:

    We need some government, how much will be debated till the end of the earth.

    As tax payers we must take away some of the power/decision making away from our elected officials, spending, setting tax rates, and borrowing.

    These three issues were problems that were never addressed properly when the country was formed and Constitution was written.

    They should have been, but the partisan nonsense started already way back then with over spending and borrowing to buy votes.

    Spending must always match actual revenue available at the time, ie what we are willing to give in the form of taxation.

    Borrowing should only be allowed with voter approval.

    Individual Income tax rates and Property tax rates should not be roller coasters of ever changing rates, which just leads to insecurity for the tax payer not knowing what is coming next from the elected to buy votes.

    That is called: As the wind blows nonsense.

    I would propose we force our elected by Petition, which is allowed in the constitution, to enact a Balanced Budget Amendment that has the income tax rate and/or property tax rate control tied to it.

    The Congress, State, and Local government agencies will only be allowed to adjust the income or property tax rates after a 2/3 approval vote within its legal boundary.

    Our choice, the citizens of the country, state, county, and local government, with a strong majority vote behind changes, not the Pacs controlling the over the top partisan as the wind blows hacks.

    Government agencies that use Property taxes should have no levy power or equalizer or ability to raise taxes because of inflation, whatever the home value, up or down, the rate we voted on determines what is paid in taxes.

    Not enough as most elected seem to keep saying, then come to us with your yearly or two year budget recommendations and let us vote 2/3 for any change from the year before.

    No more passing on our debt to future generations should be allowed.

    We borrow almost 40% for the Fed Gov now that must stop ASAP.

    We can budget a pay back of our various government debts, it’s time we correct our mistakes as lazy sleeping citizens and move on as a country with fiscally responsible government.

    I listening for other suggestions, got one?

  19. The Nob: “Also by buying that property to connect the two other school properties, you will have just cut revenue by taking that property off the tax rolls.”


    You are bringing attention to taking $10,786 off the County wide assessment of about $7,000,000,000?

    You can do better than that.

    Taking that house which is scheduled to be demolished in McHenry off the tax rolls will have more than ten times that impact!

    About ninety percent of D-200 coverage is south and south-west of the bus garage.

  20. Exactly why is this intersection problematic?

    I drive through it routinely and never have any congestion.

  21. For those proponents of the claim the intersection is a safety problems, based on what?

  22. Tired of the Club

    “The intersection is currently experiencing more accidents than the national average for a similar type of

    There are Fed and State agencies that set standards and collect data, often Civil Engineers and other professionals like lawyers, that is what.

    Any use of Gov $$$$$ has to be justified by those standards.
    There are so many different guild lines, books in print and some on-line, take a while to quote them all.

    Even if I gave you the links, would you spend the time to prove McDOT wrong?

  23. The Nob is a big govt guy.

    He won’t be disueded by logic, common sense, fiscal responsibility.

    Now that you know that, I hope you save yourselves a lot of time and headaches.

    He may as well be a Miller.

    Don’t Feed the Beast!

  24. Why did the usually sapient Evertsen second Kopsell’s nutty motion??????

    Yeah, I know, she voted right when the committee vote came, but what gives???

  25. Hey “Connect the dots”

    Bravo on connecting the dots of these money interests to their County Board minions!

  26. Motions are generally seconded to start discussion.

    Only really bad motions go without a second.

    Insofar as taking property off tax rolls, just how many acres of have been grabbed by the County for roundabouts, bridges and easements?

    Roundabouts are generally used to replace four corner intersections.

    Those intersections are considered prime real estate for commercial development.

    Do not Roundabouts replace intersections and make the surrounding land worthless for commercial development?

  27. More proof that government never excercises critical thinking.

    So many good comments that show that the taxpayers are so much more enlightened than those that think they run the show, it boggles the mind.

    Yes did a really good psyop on the world with their idyllic “Roundabout” song in the eighties.

    Contrary to what the song would have you believe, this is not a good thing.

    Nor an answer to something the government caused in the first place like some have pointed out here; proving once again, unlike government, the taxpayers can think on their feet.

  28. Farm land doesn’t need a roundabout!

    Can Anyone prove that these ridiculous road projects aren’t the latest version of Manila envelopes full of cash exchanged under the table?!?

    I’m crying Foul!

  29. Re: “I’m crying Foul!”

    I second that motion!!

    When you look at the traffic count in the Raffel Rd. / Charles Rd. area, it does not take a second grade education to determine what impact school buses have had on the intersection.

    No engineering degree is required!!

  30. cautious voter, and anybody else that really wants to learn.
    View that Lake County gov site, it will answer most of your questions.
    If you can as you view the new intersections, try to envision what it looks like with a normal intersection.
    Some land lost for sure, but really not that much.

  31. Landon Freise, I’m a big gov guy?

    Did you read my rant, where in that rant did I say big gov is better than small gov?

    I talk quite a bit about fiscally responsible gov, controlling what we give.

    No logic in that?

    Calling me a Miller, that helps getting to a solution, rock throwing always does right?

  32. Connect the dots, good link that helps,adds to the discussion.

    How many buses does Dist 200 have?

    For the sake of discussion lets say 50.

    If all are used at once twice a day, in and out of the parking area, that would mean adding 200 movements to Charles rd.

    Add another say 50 movements for Kindergarten kids buses, so about 250 movements a day total.

    Your link shows over 8k movements around the entrance to the buses and Raffle road.

    While on each side of that stretch it show under 8k movements.

    That means the traffic on Charles without buses is close to the 8k number already, since the bus traffic only adds 250 movements.

    Double the bus numbers to 100 if you like, the color on the map will not change.

    With any growth in that area at all, the whole stretch will be that hated purple color or worst perhaps.

    More justification for improving the intersection also.

    Investing more now so in the long run it costs less, that’s the point trying to be made, has nothing to do with payoffs or any other fear mongering nonsense you want so badly to believe.

    All elected are dirty, got it.

  33. Or you could close down North since its only at 50% capacity.

    Park the buses on the student lot there.

    It saves about 2.5 miles driven each day per bus.

    At about 85 buses, that is 212.5 miles saved per day or about 37,000 miles per year.

  34. What would two more stop signs – on Charles Road – cost?

  35. Reducing the speed limit for 55 to 45 at Bull Valley and Curran Roads has reduced accidents at that intersection.

    The Nob quickly dismissed my cost effective and simple remedy.

    I doubt The Nob even drives near that intersection or knows the road layout or the condition of the road; just responses in the normal playbook of big wasteful government.

  36. What about alternatives?

    One practiced in other areas of the country is the use of time-of-day-based traffic signals.

    If traffic safety concerns apply only during certain periods of the day then install lights that are designed to function during those times.

    During other times, let them flash.

    Like when school is starting and ending.

    And not during the summer.

    The county shouldn’t be concerned about a lone lawsuit unless the conditions that led to the successful Streamwood one are identical.

    Gad, to think that personal accountability for one’s driving is transferring to the government.

  37. Kelly I gave reason why that isn’t the best solution.

    Would it help yes.

    Making it a four way stop would help, but there would be opposition to that also. Any changes will get opposition, it always does.

    Did you look at the Lake county website I posted?

    Every stop sign costs 10 cents in fuel just idle time, about 2% of all fuel is lost slowing down and speeding up from a stop sign or stop light.

    I see you didn’t read my rant either, I guess the voters out there noticed you have a comprehension problem and decided not to elect you.

    I’m sad for you.

  38. eminclake, the guy was drunk motorcyclist, and all that was wrong was a sign was knocked down that Streamwood PW knew about but didn’t jump on repairing fast enough.

    Take the gov to court, have a jury trial, who wins most of the time?

    Yup, not us.

    What you suggested has been used, but often the flashing light causes people to speed up through a intersection, thinking they will beat the red light soon to come.

    You’ve seen that and probably have done that also, most of us have.

  39. Charles’ Chips, 2 speed reduction ahead signs and posts, 2 45 MPH and posts, 2 35 mph signs and posts, 2 big stop ahead signs and posts, 4 big stops for signs for each side of Charles road and posts, should have electric flashers or solar flashers for that type of road.

    Raffle is already stopped but those should be flashing also.

    Stop bars for all four sides, the payment ground so it’s ruff when driven over it wakes ya up.

    Wild guess of at least, 20k.

    Maybe the cheapest short term fix, but not as safe as a permanent expensive roundabout.

    I was pitching the most expensive repair waiting for somebody to suggest the most practical cheap solution with the best chance at safety.

    That change would also meet with opposition, but have a cookie, job well done IMO.

  40. The last several comments by “the Nob” have completely removed any credibility he may have had.

    He lives in the south-eastern part of the County – enough said?

  41. The Nob: As you apparently are all-knowing and no one else has a clue, explain the increase in traffic for the purple section.

    Your simple-minded comment relative to the buses, excludes: bus drivers going into and out of the garage area at least twice and in several cases four and five times per day.

    The bus is also the work place for mechanics and maintenance employees etc. etc.

    If you had ever visited the area you would know that the change to traffic in that area can only be caused only by the bus garage.

    I like the idea of closing Woodstock North and using that facility as a bus garage. Maybe Susan could comment relative to this as it would definitely affect the D-200 taxing needs in a significant manner.

  42. Questioning, so if you make comments about Randall @ Alg, you have no credibility?

    Rather don’t we both have the duty to speak out if our county portion of our property taxes is being wasted no matter where it’s wasted?

    Touch of disingenuous on your part perhaps!

  43. Connect the dots, did you see my 10pm comment where I gave credit for a solution?

    My comments all through this issue was to get people to offer/find a solution to the safety problem.

    In my 9:09, I even suggested the best temp solution as far as safety is concerned.

    I worked in the traffic moving field for 40 years, went to college for it, if I seemed argent, it’s because like most that have worked in the field, ya get tired of NO answers that don’t address the problem at hand.

    Ya pay us to advise then tell us we are self serving idiots and you know more about our job than we do.

    Since you made us defensive, which means as humans we want to fight back if we politically can, where is your paper from a institution of greater learning to prove you understand more than we do of the problem?

    Any actual work experience in traffic control also?

    The traffic survey you posted was most likely prepare by people with Civil Eng back grounds, and McDOT personnel must be accounting for that info.

    Of of course the employees trips to work and drive the buses were part of the total numbers, that still would not change the Charles rd numbers by the entrance to the bus yard much if a road was put though to the school.

    The employees that live other than south of the bus entrance, the school kids that drive, parents dropping of the kids, some of the buses while loaded still will head along Charles.

    I never worked for McDOT, but did work with them on occasion in the past when working for a Village.

    Sometimes we need a so called Devils Advocate to keep the ball rolling to benefit us all instead of just kicking the can down the road which always cost more in the long run.

  44. I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.


  45. Final comments for me:

    1. My travel ‘habits’ cause me to drive most County and State Roads on a fairly regular basis. As a consequence, I probably encounter the Randall / Algonquin Rd. intersection on as great a frequency as I encounter the Charles / Raffel Rd. intersection.

    2. In the U.S.A. our country grew with the telephone industry. We built a overhead / underground transmission network to support it. In many countries, that expense was avoided because they could not afford it and they leap-frogged to the cell phone era.

    I suggest we keep this in mind when we design highway networks including intersections.

    How many accidents will occur when all traveling is done in ‘smart’ cars?

    Do we need roundabouts or should we be reducing our tax burdens as our average family income is being reduced?

    BTW we are already seeing a decline in the number of millennials obtaining their driving license.

    The article contains the following:

    “The total distance driven per person in the U.S. was at its highest in 2004, and by 2013, it had decreased by 9 percent.”

    I say avoid the telephone poles and forget about roundabouts.

  46. Related, did you see where MCC, Woodstock, and others are installing internet cable along the US14 project.

    The payback is 28.7 years for city of Woodstock.

    With changing tech, seems like a waste of a gov investment.

  47. Someone took the telephone and/or electric pole from the middle of Doty Road where it meets Lucas Road.

  48. My solution is “No Left Turn Signs” on Raffel Road North and Southbound at Charles.

    Cars and bus traffic turning onto Raffel Road from Charles is no more a problem than any other intersection in the County.

    The people waiting forever to turn left off Raffel onto Westbound Charles slows traffic so much at peak times that other people get impatient and take risks.

    People who need to go West on Charles after turning off of Raffel road could just as easily taken Weir road from Raffel to Rt. #14 and turned right.

    They just don’t want to wait at the intersection of Charles and Rt. #14.

    Take away that option of a left turn and most of the problems are solved.

    BTW, there’s nothing wrong with a round-a-bout.

    The one in Johnsburg works perfectly, and there is a newer mini one on Roberts Rd North of #59-learn how to use them and it’s No problem at all.

  49. are kidding me a ROUNDABOUT !!!

    right and left turn lanes would take care of it.

    Also the bus garage should have NEVER been built on Charles Rd.

    that was one of the BIGGEST SCAMS here in McHenry County paying the farmer for his land and then the lose of his crops just to build a bus garage when they had land at the High School and if you remember there was a land swap were the Woodstock North H.S. was going to be built and under the table dealings D200 hush hush people don’t remember that.

    Always @ the taxpayers expense.

  50. Most Illinois drivers can barely handle standard intersections, and you want to build a ROUND-ABOUT???

    Somebody’s grad-student relative in the Transportation Dept. has got to be pushing this one…

  51. open the paper this morning and laughed until I had tears in my eyes.

    Don Goad Greenwood Township Highway Commissioner spoke in favor of the roundabout he said “high speeds, lack of turn lanes and limited visibility at the intersection.

    Were are the “HIGH” speeds 55 mph is NOT “HIGH” speeds HELLO !!
    Lack of turn lanes well there you go cost less to put turning lanes in HELLO!! again.

    and this one gets me “LACK OF VISIBILITY” open land can see in all directions HELLO AGAIN !!

    worried about the buses just buy more land and build a road from bus garage to the high school but that is too easy.

  52. take the money for the roundabout and fix bull valley and country club road

    PLEASE I’m tired of driving around it to avoid the hoes and very bad road just PATCHING it doesn’t work

    spend the roundabout money this need project and forget the roundabout

    its NOT needed.

  53. Cal, what, if anything, did Franks & Company have to do with this project. Much was said about high traffic counts (seemed implausible at best) and higher than normal incidences of severe angle collisions. It also seemed that come hell or high water, this project was going to be done whether needed or not.

    I stumbled across the sheriff’s crime mapping website and looking for traffic related incidents (which includes accidents – since I was able to find crashes I had first hand knowledge of on the site) and guess what? There were NO, NONE, NADA accidents/crashes at the intersection of Charles and Raffel road for the past three years. The only accident reported was slightly east of the intersection. Other than that, there was a single traffic incident reported AT the intersection.

    Might be interesting to look into property transfers in that area for the past couple of years. If you know when this project first reared its ugly head, going back a few years before that might provide some idea who made money on this deal.

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